matlamenace
Nombre de messages: 45 Age: 34 Localisation: Lorient Date d'inscription: 10/12/2007
 | Sujet: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 13:07 | |
| J'aurais aimé connaitre comment se déplaçait une légion romaine en terrain ennemi, dans le but de jouer des escarmouches et embuscades liées entre elles. Une chose qui manque parfois au systeme GBOH, c'est la possibilité de jouer une sorte de campagne (meme si je sais que F.Bey en avait publié une dans VV pour joindre les différentes batailles de la seconde guerre punique).
Dans mon cas, j'avais dans l'idée de créer quelque chose qui n'était pas forcément historique (voire, peut être un peu tournée aventure même), du genre, une légion partant dans une contrée ennemie et harassée par des troupes tribales (un peu comme la marche des 10000 de Xenophon). Mon problème, c'est que je ne sais pas trop si une légion romaine avait une formation de marche particulière, quelles unités sont en tête, lesquelles ferment la marche, la cavalerie romaine restait elle à proximité ou jouait elle un rôle d'éclaireur plus en avant ? Merci pour vos avis éclairés. |
|
Fred59

Nombre de messages: 1646 Date d'inscription: 16/09/2009
 | |
Allalalai

Nombre de messages: 11194 Localisation: Embrun Date d'inscription: 04/12/2007
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 16:16 | |
| En tortue ! En quinconce ! En triangle ! Non je plaisante ! Tu as un Osprey très bien sur le sujet. |
|
Fred59

Nombre de messages: 1646 Date d'inscription: 16/09/2009
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 16:33 | |
| | Allalalai a écrit: | | Tu as un Osprey très bien sur le sujet. |
Mais encore ??? Tu nous aide vâchement là, tu sais  |
|
Allalalai

Nombre de messages: 11194 Localisation: Embrun Date d'inscription: 04/12/2007
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 17:12 | |
| Elite 155 Roman Battles Tactics 109 BC- AD 313  |
|
Semper Victor

Nombre de messages: 10890 Age: 51 Localisation: Vanves (mais je suis de Meudon) Date d'inscription: 03/12/2007
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 17:15 | |
| Si tu comprends l'anglais : | Citation: | A Roman Army on the Move By HMD Parker The method of advance of the Roman army to the field of battle varied with the chances of attack from the enemy while the troops were on the march.
If the country was known to be safe and there was little reason to suspect a sudden attack or ambush, the army proceeded in one long column. In the vanguard was an ala of auxiliary cavalry with its baggage; then followed the legions, each with its own baggage in rear; while the rear flanks of the column were protected by more auxiliary cavalry. This was the normal formation employed by Caesar, and it is analogous to the order of march adopted by Vespasian in his invasion of Judea, of which Josephus gives the following detailed account.
The vanguard was composed of light-armed troops and archers drawn from the auxilia, with a view to frustrating any possible enemy attacks. These were followed by a detachment of Roman legionary infantry and cavalry, which preceded a squad of engineers and road-makers. Behind them came Vespasian himself, with his picked bodyguard of infantry and cavalry, representing the head of the main body, which advanced in the following order. The 120 cavalry, which were attached to each legion, followed by a squad carrying siege apparatus, led the way; then came the legionary general with his cohort commanders and bodyguard immediately in front of the legionary aquila, behind which the trumpeters marched.
The legion itself came next, drawn up six deep, with a centurion in the rear to keep discipline and prevent men from falling out, and the main body ended with the baggage of the legion carried by servants and beasts of burden.
The rear-guard consisted of mercenary troops, which for safety's sake were followed by some optiones and a picked force of legionary infantry and cavalry. A similar picture is given by Arian in his order of march against the Alani.
In this case the vanguard consisted of scouts (exploratores) and two alae and six cohortes equitatae of auxilia.
The main body was headed by four auxiliary cohorts, followed by the legionary cavalry, who preceded the aquila of legion XV.
Then came the legionary commander with his cohort leaders in front of legion XV, which was followed in a similar order by legion XII marching behind its own aquila. On the flank were cavalry, and the rear-guard consisted of allied troops and baggage animals with an ala of cavalry in the extreme rear.
The general purpose, therefore, of the normal order of march was to place the legionary troops in the centre of the column and to protect them with auxiliary infantry and cavalry, to bear the brunt of any possible attack, and give the legion time to deploy.
When the line of advance lay through difficult country, or when hostile attacks were a probability, it was necessary to adopt an order of march which could be easily converted into an order of battle. The disposition most commonly employed in such circumstances was the agmen quadratum, or hollow square formation. The troops were divided into four columns, which marched parallel to each other, so that, if an attack threatened from any quarter, the agmen could be easily transformed into a triplex acies. This formation was adopted by Germanicus against the Bructeri in 14AD, and the dispositions are described as follows by Tacitus: 'Caesar avidus legiones...quattuor in cuneos dispertit. Pars equitum et auxiliariae cohortes ducebant, mox prima legio, et mediis impedimentis sinistrum latus unetvicensimani, dextrum quintani clausere, vicensima legio terga firmavit, post ceteri sociorum.' By this plan of advance the baggage was placed in the centre of a rectangle bounded by the four legions, and, if an attack threatened from either the front or the flanks, the troops could easily be organised by a simple manoeuvre into three lines of defence. A similar formation resembling the agmen quadratum was adopted by Corbulo in his advance against Artaxata. The three legions of his army advanced in parallel columns, 'recepta inter ordines impedimenta', while a thousand cavalry protected the rear.
Taken from: Parker, HMD. 1928. The Roman Legions Clarendon Press: Oxford |
_________________ « Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ? » Juvénal.
http://www.fredbey.com/
|
|
birhacheim

Nombre de messages: 4200 Age: 52 Localisation: Tourcoing Date d'inscription: 10/05/2009
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 17:57 | |
| | Allalalai a écrit: | Elite 155 Roman Battles Tactics 109 BC- AD 313  |
pas encore eu entre les mains mais ça doit se trouver dans les bonnes boutiques... et sur emule... voir aussi le bouquin de Fred chez H&C, non ? |
|
matlamenace
Nombre de messages: 45 Age: 34 Localisation: Lorient Date d'inscription: 10/12/2007
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 17:58 | |
| merci beaucoup, cela répond en effet à ma question. |
|
Tristan

Nombre de messages: 189 Localisation: Italie Date d'inscription: 01/11/2009
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 18:05 | |
| Deux sources anciennes disponibles sur la Toile:
Flavius Josephe, Guerre des Juifs
http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/historiens/Flajose/guerre3.htm#V
Arrien, Projet d'expédition contre les Alains (en grec et anglais).
http://members.tripod.com/~S_van_Dorst/Ancient_Warfare/Rome/Sources/ektaxis.html#translation
Si tu comprends l'italien je peux aussi te signaler une bonne analyse de ce dernier.
Dernière édition par Tristan le Mer 26 Mai - 13:52, édité 1 fois |
|
santino

Nombre de messages: 3388 Localisation: Strasbourg Date d'inscription: 08/06/2008
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 18:56 | |
| Et César en Gaules, cf la bataille de -52 où la cavalerie gauloise se fait hacher en tentant de prendre à partie les légions en marche. |
|
Allalalai

Nombre de messages: 11194 Localisation: Embrun Date d'inscription: 04/12/2007
 | Sujet: Re: Mode déplacement de la légion romaine Mar 25 Mai - 21:13 | |
| emule je ne connais pas ?  Mais si vous ne vous en sortez pas, envoyez-moi un mp avec adresse, je verrai si mon disque dur contient des choses intéressantes  |
|